Wendy 00:10

Hello, I'm Wendy Liebmann, CEO and Chief Shopper at WSL Strategic Retail and this is Future Shop. This is where I talk to innovators disruptors, and iconoclasts, about the future of retail. Today, my guest is Reema Jweied-Guegel. She is the director of the AARP Enterprise Strategy Group, where she leverages her extraordinary experience and background in partnerships, global development, and social impact. Welcome, Reema. I'm so happy to have you on Future Shop.

Reema 00:43

Thank you so much for inviting me. It's such an honor to be doing this conversation with you.

Wendy 00:48

Reema recently spoke at our Future of Health symposium in New York City. She brought into context, not just all the extensive services that many of us, of a certain age might know about AARP, but actually the focus on consumers and shoppers, or caregivers. And that really resonated with all of us. Because as we're beginning to look at the changing demographics of the country, and our own How America Shops® research, that there is a great need to not only understand who these people are, but to explode the myths around people who help take care of other people in their lives. Because there are going to be many more of them as we move into the future, and they become both need based, but also real opportunities been very pragmatic for the retailers that we talk about and serve. When I think about this group that we generically called caregivers, when you look at them through the lens of AARP, how do you how do you define them? What is a caregiver in your world,

Reema 02:02

There are many definitions for the term caregiver. But what we say is anyone who's 18 years, 18 years old or older, caring for a person who's 18 years old or older, and that can be a person who is your immediate family member, your spouse, your mother, father, sister, brother. And it can also be your neighbor. I mean, oftentimes people don't understand that the service that they do the kindness that they give to a neighbor to do something as simple as going and collecting groceries or mail or cutting the lawn. That's an act of caregiving. And in many ways, that's why I like to say caregiving is something that cuts across all of America, we are all at one point going to be a caregiver or and hopefully, not everyone, but and be cared for. Yeah

Wendy 02:54

yeah. It's so interesting, as you say that, because I was thinking about, I have a very good friend who has a very good friend, and there's a group of them in their building that care for somebody who's struggling with their health, and they do everything from, you know, make doctor's appointments, and get the groceries and help out reminding them of things help clean the apartment, and I think they're doing it. They're just friends, they, they, as you say, would not even define themselves as caregivers in any sort of official capacity. So it's interesting, the way you define that. I always think about that term has kind of become almost commoditized without a real understanding of the people behind the term. Yeah,

Reema 03:40

I love the way you just phrase it. And I think it's interesting, because in that moment, what your friends are doing for their friend is very much like it takes a village mentality. Yeah, and absolutely, that's what caregiving is. Yeah.

Wendy 03:52

So so, you know, put a face, as we said, put a face on this. You've done a lot of research at AARP. We've done our own How America Shops® research, and you and I have compared notes, but you know, who are these people? Tell us a story about who these people are. I mean, the

Reema 04:09

the story does run the gamut, as I said, of adults here in the United States. But also, I mean, to put this in context, and I don't have the global numbers at my fingertips. But this is a global issue. It's a global challenge, and disproportionately, it affects women. In this country. Most family caregivers are women. They are skewing younger than the demographic that AARP typically works with so AARP membership, we say it's for everyone, actually, you don't have to be 50. But the 50 Plus is who we technically serve, and yet our family caregiver demographics are skewing much younger, into the Gen Z population. And that's well over 50% The reality is that there are now one and three are young men. They are not just you know, women doing the job of family caregiving. And it is cutting across all ethnic backgrounds, all races. If you think about, as I said earlier, everyone in this country will eventually become a caregiver. We know today there are 48 million in the AARP definition. But that number is actually much higher when you take into consideration other forms of caregiving, especially those that are caring for perhaps children with disabilities. So I think it's interesting to consider where the disproportionate impact might occur. Think about people in rural situations, or you think about people in urban settings, and where disproportionately some of the economic impact can occur and how it is a marketplace. I think, not to sound too commercial, but it is a marketplace of interest for your consumers.

Wendy 05:49

In our data, we see that 60% of a national sample of people tell us they are responsible, in some way for giving care to a broader, you know, family, audience, family, friends, when you talk about the numbers, that's always interesting to me, because the perception of people who are unofficially, helping people out or taking care of them in the village kind of setting that you've described is really interesting. We've seen in our new work, to your point, you know, more men have been part of that. It's not just women, it is certainly predominantly women, but not only, and the younger population.

Reema 06:33

So one thing that I have personally experienced was being in the middle of an aisle in a store, we will remain nameless, the store, having been there for an activation that AARP was participating in to work with and reach out to local family caregivers, and leverage our expertise in this community. And this young woman came up made sure she took a break. She wasn't sales associate. So she worked on the floor. She came to the booth and pulled me aside and said, I just want you to know, I made sure to take my break early because I wanted to thank you AARP. And I said, Well, you know, you're You're welcome. And thank you for for saying this. She said I'm a member. So she was 22 years old. She said she was a member, she was a family caregiver for her mother, her disabled sister, and her disabled nephew, and she was the sole breadwinner in a hourly wage job full time. And of course, I call these Kleenex moments. I saw this young 22 year old, who's the person I'm saying is is clearly a rising demographic.

Wendy 07:36

I remember we were doing some a focus group of, of shoppers, for one of our retail clients. And what was so interesting is one of the women was, she was at school, she was in her late teens, early 20s. And she was taking care of her grandmother. And she talked about how she created this whole sort of a world around her using digital term. And she was one of the first people I knew who was, you know, pick it ordering the just reordering the prescription, on her phone going up to pick it up, she really created a very modern ecosystem. These are quite dramatic and impactful stories in your right Kleenex moments, stories, when you what people are dealing with, what are the lives like, as you see them through the AARP work of people who are caring for somebody else. I mean, it feels like this world of perpetual juggling.

Reema 08:32

I myself am a family caregiver. So you, for me, I'm very fortunate and blessed. I work in an organization where they're great stewards of this social impact movement, as we like to think about it. And so in terms of how they provide me with the ability to show up and do what I can do, when I need to do it, do what I need to do at home versus do what I need to do here, the work, what a family caregiver has to go to through on a daily basis vary depending on the state of need and care that they are providing for their loved ones. But the reality is my world is different than the other person and our words worlds yet are small. Yeah.

Wendy 09:13

And I do think about it. I mean, you're right, you and I are fortunate and many of the people listening to this are fortunate maybe economically or we work with companies that create some support for us. But even within that, I mean, you know, if we think about a broader community, where if we're juggling and stressed with the juggling, then we think about the broader community that doesn't have that level of support that safety net, then the whole focus around everything from mental health and financial responsibilities, and all of those things that come to play with this. Yep, the thing that strikes me is this thing about, as I said earlier, we call this we've created this category that says caregivers or family caregivers, I mean that That's like putting a label on something. And I do think it often marginalizes, you know, the role, oh, you're a caregiver. But is that do you see that in any of your research where people say, Listen, I don't call me that, you know, do you see that?

Reema 10:15

that? We do. In fact, it's maybe more of I didn't think of myself as a caregiver. And therefore using that as a label isn't the fullness of who I am. Behind me, I have a board that we've used in these activations, where we were calling that point out, it is, at the very top, it says, I'm a caregiver, and a blank, and we encourage people to come and tell us their stories about the blank, you know, I'm a sister, I'm a mother, I am a lawyer, I am a lawyer whatever. And I need help with to really drill down into what it is that we can do, whether it's AARP or, you know, the retailer or the consumer packaged goods company, what could we do to help them to make their journey a little more easier? I think the name caregiver is probably not the best name.

Wendy 11:05

Yeah.

Reema 15:01

I think the name caregiver is probably not the best name.

Wendy 15:13

I do think it's that what you've just said. And now I'm in the sort of commercial side of things, thinking about how we even call out or recognize or support. Because sometimes, you know, if it's, if it's labeled under caregiver, you go like, yeah, not for me, as opposed to all the things that could be for me, but it is that sort of empathy, that you say, I know who you are. And this is just one of the many things you're dealing with every day. And here's how we can help. So often think about what's the vernacular, what's the vocabulary that we have to use in a, even in a commercial setting, to actually support this group of people who are supporting other people who need us as well?

Reema 11:49

It is something to consider long term, you know, what is that? Cause related rally, that that kind of like the Stand Up to Cancer approach? How do we think about building awareness around what it is we do? versus the actual title itself? Yeah, and that's something that we've been thinking about along this partnership space, it's in

Wendy 12:14

in our research, we ask people, are they caregivers when they designate themselves? We then say to them, are you you know, are there conditions that the people that medical conditions, that you're helping your friend, family, whomever take care of, and we look at it by people who are caring for somebody with diabetes, or heart condition, or Alzheimer's or mental health issues. And what's so interesting to me in that broad range of things is so often these people are both taking care of somebody who has a condition, but they often have the condition themselves. So it does call to mind who I am as a caregiver, and who am I taking care of and that complexity, just like

Reema 12:58

it's a and then you think of a Venn diagram, space of all the different intersections where these things occur, where these opportunities also occur. You touched on something Wendy, very important, which is the health and the self care of a family caregiver. And that's something I remember looking on the wall during the symposium, you had out identified already. stressors, and I forget exactly the wording, but it had something to do with not sleeping, not eating right, not taking care of yourself. Right. These are three areas, absolutely, that have an impact on the family, caregiver and mental health is top of that as well.

Wendy 13:37

I think the data point, the attribute is, you know, what are the barriers to living at healthy life, and you're right with it. stresses, number one, lack of sleep, eat healthy eating, all of those, you know, when you think about the services, or the resources that you offer, I, you know, give you the opportunity to do a little pitch here,

Reema 13:55

the way that we are helpful is thinking about the navigation piece. So helped me to consider as a caregiver helped me to think about the financial aspects of down dealing with a loved one that may be short term or long term, but there's financial planning that needs to happen. So we have resources and guides. And we actually go down to the state level, which is the beauty of AARP that can be this national support structure, social impact structure, but we know that these things don't work standardized across the U.S. so we have them created down to the state level. So financial, Prepare to Care is one of our resources, things around Medicare and Medicaid even though the caregiver themselves may not be accessing these resources, Medicare and Medicaid, insurance payments, etc. It's understanding what they can access to help support their loved one. These are just a couple of the things and then finally, we have things around decluttering, around how do you take care of your So there's some self care guides around how do you make your home fit, though you have people in your group that are in durable medical equipment? Well, what kinds of DME do I need to have in the home? And how do I go about that? And how you can't just go and buy a wheelchair, you have to think about what's needed for your loved one in the moment? Or how do I think about home fitting my house so that the person who's with me can be more comfortable, including counter heights, including grab bars, if you go to our website, we have a ton of resources. What we are working on today, though, is to make that navigation a little easier for everyone, so that it's what you need when you need it. So

Wendy 15:41

So as I think about the retail community, the consumer packaged goods industry, the pharmaceutical industries, all of the areas that, you know, we could play into here, or we do and now listeners participate in, I think about that sense of ease. How do you make this complex situation and lifestyle easier for people? So, you know, sometimes I don't think we think about this when somebody has to worry about other people's medications, you know, how do we think about you know, organizing the pills? How do we think about the reminder calls, you know, delivery services, it's something that any company, any retailer, if they think about the somebody who's taking care of somebody else, in my store in my place online, whenever, how can I make their life easier, whether it's as a caregiver, or as just as a person who's juggling two jobs, three jobs, is that is that how you look at some of the opportunity here making people's lives easier?

Reema 16:46

One of the things that we know about the retail space, and the consumer packaged goods space in particular is, we know that the family caregiver is spending out of their own pocket 7600 roughly dollars per year, outside of the prescription. So the prescriptions are covered, we would think through the insurance vehicle. But when I'm in the store, I'm also going to be looking at incontinence goods, I'm going to be looking at supplements and vitamins, I'm going to be looking at household, you know, cleaning products, because now I have to be careful about what I use for sensitivity and allergens etc. Also, if I'm in a big box store, I'm going to be looking at foods, “food as medicine” is a big thing. nowadays, if you think about a person in a store buying and stressed out buying for their loved one, how do we you help them make decisions a little better, a little faster, a little less complicated? Not everyone's going to be purchasing incontinence goods. But if you see a pattern of purchases, or if they start in the back of the store, for example, at the pharmacy, you know that this person who's a 20 something is is probably a caregiver, because they're getting medicines for a much older person. Yeah, think about that interaction and carry that through the aisles. Yeah, I think too,

Wendy 18:06

think too, especially it goes back to that earlier point. How do we see the person so that a person walks into the store or comes onto our website, or goes to order a prescription for somebody online or, you know, vaccine shot or something, you start to know pretty quickly in this age of information? who's who and what's what, right? Right? Right. And if we use those resources, it seems to me, in a in a more effective way to see the people, the faces of the people who are both being served and who are serving, then that's the other piece, right? We talk a lot about at our end somebody has been diagnosed with diabetes, but it's not that they just need either pens and insulin or whatever it is, they've got a whole raft of other things they need to take care of. And usually there's somebody else helping them take care of that, to use our data to help identify the PERT the need and then begin to make what that person needs. easier to access. Right?

Reema 25:19:10

That would unlock so much. And the things that we hear about from a shopping perspective from a consumer in the aisle is, I mean, things that run the gamut from I wish someone would just see me and give me an ice cream. We actually heard someone say that, or I wish that you had parking. I don't have a handicap sticker. But I have a person who has clearly some problems in in walking or whatever and I need to bring them in the store. I wish there was caregiver parking or in the store. I wish there were places I could put my loved one to sit while I go. Because oftentimes they're shopping with their loved one. Yeah. And I'll say and oftentimes they're coming in, and sometimes they're by themselves and you can see you can see they have this look. They call it what dwell time there. confused about what it is that they? Yeah. So

Wendy 20:03

So that that feels like we're also the moment we're in where we have or retailers have and brands have lots of data, and lots of ways to deliver things through ecommerce or order online and pick up at store and you know, all of those things. And they seem, naively, maybe on my part has to be able to if we think about who that consumer is, who they're buying for who they're shopping for now, that unlocks lots of opportunity, both to serve them, but also to serve ourselves in terms of the commercial proposition around this, it just feels like I think about like food to go, easy meal. I mean, I'm just, you know, riffing all of the things right. Have an ice cream or chocolate do your job well done. Right?

Reema 20:51

Right? That's that would be brilliant. Anybody out there listening to this podcast? If they can crack that nut, that would be hysterical. Because not not funny. But you know,

Wendy 21:01

the other thing I think about you just mentioned, you know, 77,000 something dollars that people spend out of pocket on average, to take care of somebody else. $7,700. Okay. And as I think about that every year, first of all, I think about what you have to make to do that, you know, what's the gross? But the other thing I think about is, you know, how do I make sure that I'm, you know, creating value or incentives or support financially to help people not just time or information or a little cuddle? But also, how do we help them save money? So is that also something you see as is really important, and assessing it? And in all the work that we could be doing? If

Reema 21:45

so if you consider how do you deliver value to your consumer, there are lots of retailers that do a really good job of, I'm sure pressing on the suppliers, but providing the consumer with that marginal value that cheap, that cheaper, lesser price, I think there are other ways that can build maybe more consumer loyalty. That could be something that programs that could build upon themselves, ways to see your family caregiver in the aisle and provide them with incentives maybe. But yes, I feel like dealing with that number, which is, which looms large for a lot of this population, it is not easy when you make money. So I can only imagine when you are struggling. Yeah. So how do you think about delivering value? In terms of price? Yeah,

Wendy 22:34

yeah, absolutely. So I know you've been doing work with some of the retailers, one of our good friends, Mike Wysong and Care Pharmacies. What can you talk a little bit about the kind of partnering you're doing? Because I think that will give us all listening ideas of, you know, what's what's really worked in real life? And then what are some of the barriers to these things as we look for solutions moving forward? Yeah.

Reema 22:58

Yeah. So with Care Pharmacies, first of all, yes, our dear friend, Mike, loved working with Care Pharmacies, I think the beauty of working with them is because they're independent pharmacies, you know, they were able to give us two demonstration stores, we'll call them one that was more of a traditional model in the delivery sense of the word. I mean, most of Care Pharmacies, I think, the consumers or the customers, rather, are having their prescriptions delivered, right. But the other store that we use had a true footprint. It was actually quite marvelous. It had a compounding pharmacy, a regular pharmacy, a doctor on site, who made house calls. I mean, that was also interesting. A nutritionist, all of the things they sold DME, they had beauty products, you name it, the store had it. And then in the back, they had a workshop space. And so what we decided to deal with that store in particulars, how do we show up in community, we worked with the pharmacist owner, put QR codes and shelf talkers. And I know not every retailer can operate this way. But in this case, we did that would give the person the opportunity to scan and access resources related to not a specific brand, but the products in the aisle that they were looking at and how it would fit into their needs as a family caregiver. We worked with the pharmacist to think about what are the questions that as you see this person come to your counter and make a purchase. And now you know, this is a family caregiver. How do you interact with them? What we know is that a lot of caregivers look at a pharmacist as a trusted resource and a guide. So how does that interaction happen? And then how do you help them, direct them and navigate the story that you have in front of you to make those purchasing decisions? And we found a lot of good results. Again, it was very small. It's a hyperlocal demonstration, but I think it was anecdotally For us a way to test our theory that if we can work with the retailers and down the road with the consumer packaged goods, companies to think about the person as they come into the store, provide the resources to the retailer, to the sales associates, provide some training in terms of how to identify this person as a family caregiver, and then provide access at the store both in physical and digital formats to AARP resources, that we could reach a family caregiver in an aisle in a moment of need or crisis. We also did some workshops, community-based workshops, which was great because we were able to bring volunteers, we have an army of volunteers, Wendy, volunteers, and experts and talk about specific topics that were of interest to the family caregivers, it

Wendy 25:50

it seems like what these people who care for others, call them that for now. need from us, as an industry, whether it's an organization like AARP, or retailers, or brands or pharmaceuticals, whatever, that they just, they need us to help make their lives easier and more affordable. And maybe provide a little empathy along the way, or a lot of empathy along the way, do you? What's your vision for what we need? Or what we could do both short and long term? To help people who are caring for others?

Reema 26:31

I'm glad that you asked this. I think one of the things that we've been really working on strategically is this idea around a coalition of retailers, consumer packaged goods, and others in if you think of an ecosystem around the family caregiver, I mean, you touched on it like rides, and food delivery services and others. But let's start let's start with these two components first, and how can AARP work with these parts of the industry to say, let's create a solution set around that family caregiver, let's amplify awareness around what a family caregiver is, let's join forces to create that awareness campaign of like Stand Up to Cancer, you know, here's the family caregiver, and again, nomenclature, TBD, and figure out the cause related piece, but then work together to collaborate on these solutions that can address those needs and drive value to the consumer. And I would offer that sometimes working together in terms of competitors at the table, sometimes the most wonderful solutions come out of those kinds of efforts. And that's what I I would hope to see in a coalition. And I think that is where, why, personally, I know that working with you, working with others that have come into the orbit of AARP like NACDS, and some of the various retail partners like Mike and others that I've been had the pleasure to work with, I know that there's a solution. In this mix,

Wendy 28:08

we hear about traffic being an issue into stores every day, every day, we get that from our retail clients, as well as the manufacturer clients. And you said yourself, there is an audience here that is in need. And if we see them, see them, then the opportunity for us to bring value to them and make their lives easier and bring value to us. I just I'm always amazed when there's an opportunity to staring us in the face. And also as the population ages, as it is that just keeps going and growing. Right. And and will

Reema 28:45

We're not being completely mercenary or commercial. There's a social impact piece. And it's great that there's a financial opportunity as well attached to it because I have always felt that the private sector is uniquely qualified to address these needs. It can't be a handout, it needs to be more weighty than that. And that's why I agree with you. I think this is where this intersection where this solution happens. So, you know, I feel very what's the word I'm looking for? Very excited, inspired, if you will, by some of the things I heard during the symposium and also inspired by the people I have encountered along the way. I know the solution is there.

Wendy 29:22

there. Yeah. And you know, the other thing I think about we're talking about family caregivers, but even professional caregivers, people getting their services. I mean, they still need to figure out what's what and who's who but the opportunity, the quote, unquote, low hanging fruit, which is a terrible expression, but that the opportunity seems so large, it's just I wonder if people to your point, they need to bring together like minded souls that see the value of supporting people. And then, you know, how do you commercialize it, that feels to me like, it's a massive operation. because if we're not there yet, we're going to be there in a minute and a half. So let's get on with it, right. Yeah,

Reema 30:06

why not also offer one other thing for consideration. And that is, when companies are looking at this opportunity at hand, don't forget the employees, the sales associates, the people in your own midst. It's well, and good to say we want to serve the needs of this consumer audience. But if you're not walking the walk, right, that window dressing will fall very quickly. Yeah. So thinking about that caregiver that is in your employee, and addressing their needs is maybe the first one. Okay, I'm not gonna say the only but maybe one of the first steps that are that's very easy to take. And by the way, we have the ability to help you with that, too. But But, but it's really, just to say that that is a maybe a way to, to live into this approach of looking at this audience. And when you do this, you're going to create that consumer loyalty for life. I mean, it's the arc of their you start at this point of me, you're going to find someone that says, hey, this product, that retailer, they helped me,

Wendy 31:11

I think that's really wise as we exit the stage. I think that that, again, it's about seeing, it's about seeing people, it's about seeing their knee, but you're right, in any company, who is it that you can begin to listen to understand and support and then that circle, circle is a full circle. And it is a coalition offered in many different ways. So I knew this would be compelling. I know we've got a lot of new data around this and insights, you've got a lot of new data and great insights. So together we will, you know, get at the barricades with our passion for taking care of the people who take care of us and everybody else. And that will be a huge opportunity in the future. f retail. So Reema, thank you so much for being with me today. Again, it's, it's wonderful to have you and to continue the journey. So I look forward to doing more of that in the future.

So here's the thing. the opportunity here is just so significant. Not only is our population aging, actually the population in most countries, most developed countries around the world is aging. It's not just you know, older people taking care of much older people. Now it's younger people, juggling lives, busy lives, stressful lives, taking care of friends, family, their own kids with situations. So what more can I say? Take a look at our new How America Shops® research there is a lot in there about this group of consumers, shoppers, patients who are often taking care of themselves, as well as taking care of others. They have needs, everyday basic needs, that we as manufacturers and retailers and service communities can really provide. The challenge is are we listening? So I leave you to think about that for the future. See you there. Cheers for now.