Wendy L. 00:02

Hello everyone. I'm Wendy Liebmann, CEO and Chief Shopper at WSL Strategic Retail. And this is Future Shop. This is where I talk to innovators, disruptors and iconoclasts about the future of retail. Today I have one of those with me. She is my good colleague, Elia Auchane, did I pronounce that correctly? Elia. Elia,

Elia 00:32

yeah, it's getting better and better, better and better.

Wendy L. 00:35

Elia has worked with us for four years. Is it four years? Yes, in May, it'll be four years. Okay, there you go. Well, let's not jinx us, but by then, I should have it down perfectly. Elia is the only person in the world where she is so polite when I try to practice my French on her, and she goes, Oh, yeah. So okay, anyway, so that's a little, that's a little of the behind the scenes. Elia and I have been on the road again, and we're just back from Miami, we were at the Cosmoprof North America Beauty conference What's interesting about going to these events, and Elia will tell us more, is that, you know, you get exposed to a lot of things, and one of the things that's been on our mind of late is whether or not beauty is tapped out, slowing up, in spite of all the information that we're seeing from our colleagues and friends at NielsenIQ and Circana. So anyway, that's one of the things that we're going to talk a little bit about today. Elia is one of our senior team who focuses on beauty, retail, hospitality, food and beverage Elia, welcome back to Future Shop.

Elia 01:450

Thank you, Wendy, it's it's nice to be back, especially to talk about our trip

Wendy L. 01:5002:22

to Miami. Yes, indeed. set the stage for people so they know what Cosmoprof North America is all about and the Miami event, sure.

Elia 01:58

So, I mean, you said it quite well. Cosmoprof is the biggest B 2B beauty show in the world. There are two editions in the US. There's one in Vegas in the summer and one in Miami, which is the newest one. it's a good pulse on what's happening in the industry. What are some of the new brands that are popping up? What are some of the new trends, innovation, how messaging also is shifting, a big trade show, B to B, trade show that covers hair, makeup, nail, all sorts of like any beauty you can that you can think of,

Wendy L. 02:41

skincare, everything? Fragrance. Skin, yes, yeah, everything, right?

Elia 02:48

Fragrance, fragrance, skincare, of course, which there was a lot of this year. There seems to be two very distinctive trends or categories, if we can call them, that that were dominating the floor. One was K Beauty, of course, which is making a huge comeback over the last, I don't know, two years. And the other one was Middle Eastern fragrances, which, for I think that was a little bit of a surprise to us. We didn't expect it to be so big, but it was, I think both of these, like K Beauty and Middle Eastern fragrances, maybe took like two thirds of the floor show, right? So it was very impressive. Big booth, lots of people manning the booth, lots of people coming to the booth. It's sort of it felt like it sort of overshadowed everything else. And talking to a few people who also were at the show, it was so big that the rest of the brands, and like the country pavilions and the indie, smaller brands, the aspiring founder brands, sort of were. Like in the shadow of these two big viral social trends, almost that was really interesting to see how that has flipped from even six months ago when we were in Cosmoprof Las Vegas.

Wendy L. 04:09

I think that was the thing that was so interesting, right? I should add in here that in addition to the floor show, the booth show, there's also a whole educational pillar that that we were involved in, where there are panels and keynotes and all of that. So there are those two things going on, but what you tend to see, as Elia said on the floor, is these trends that really emerge. And I think what's interesting about what you just said was it was these two big themes almost, well, they did dominate, you're right, but they almost felt like they were clashing, right? This sort of cool, calm, facial skin care, K beauty, very sleepy, right, exactly. And then, on the other hand, all this, you know, glossy, goldy, really over the top presentation of all these fragrances. And it was just the counterpoint, I think, for people who are thinking about beauty and how trends emerge. That's why you should go to these things, because you're right. You know, it was so self evident. And you know what it made me think about? Elia, was this big trend around Dubai Chocolate that is, like, Where the heck did that come from? Like, this really pricey chocolate. And I was like, okay, now we've got Dubai chocolate and we've got all these middle eastern fragrances.

Elia 05:36

it was definitely two, two world clashing. Two Worlds clashing. Yeah. On the one side you had the, like, very minimalist booth of the K beauty brands, whether that was skincare or makeup. And then on the other side, you had those huge booths like golden and the products as well, like K beauty brands tend to be very and even the packaging is is really, like, toned down, very sleek, like, it's just like, you understand that they want to give this idea of, like, trusted product and like, clinically proven and all those, all those messaging. And then on the other side, you had those, those fragrance bottles that had, like, a little, one of them had, I think, at the picture, a little snake, like Golden Snake around, and then you had those, like fake ice creams, like ice cream bottles. So it's really interesting to see the two, like the two parties at the show. Yeah, and to your point about the Cosmo Talks, the panels and discussions. The discussions also reflected these two trends, like there was Anna Mayo from NIQ talked about the power of indie brands and how much they're fueling the growth of the beauty business today in the US, with brands like Medicube and others and the Middle Eastern fragrances like Ajmal, Lattafa, Swiss Arabian, all of those that we saw in the booth. And then you also had a panel moderated by Larissa Jensen from Circana that was around Gen Z and their usage of fragrance. And how do they see fragrance, how they feel fragrance? So it was really both really reflected each other. So it was really interesting to see it on the floor from the brands, and then hear from some of the industry experts about why that may be, and how you explain such a like, such a trend coming to life.

Wendy L. 07:33

Yeah, yeah. And the fragrance piece, you're absolutely right. You talked about packaging. So two things that I felt were consistent, and we saw that a little bit at Cosmoprof in Las Vegas, was this packaging, even for the Korean brands, much more colorful, sort of, I don't know if Happy is the right word, but not just like The Ordinary brands called The Ordinary, which is very medicinal looking and whatever. But even they're much more colorful packaging, even if it was a simple design, and then on the the the fragrance side, it was like, what in a Women's Wear Daily article, I was quoted and talked about, sort of the toyification of beauty and and, you know, as you said, you know, it was like a as like a cake cap on some of the fragrances, or, you know, chocolates as fragrances, and all of these sort of things where goes back to the days where you would put it on your, you know, bathroom, or your vanity or something, yeah, these very playful sort of packages of things, which is always which is so interesting. And. Again, within this context of why, and you alluded to it in the very beginning, the sort of sense of social media and the use of packaging and color in social media packaging, that if you're going to be on TikTok Shop, you know, you want to be able to show something that really stands out and doesn't fade into the background. So, you know, talk a little bit about you made the comment about it felt like it was a social media feed. So talk about that. What you saw it in all that? Because you really picked that up quickly.

Elia 09:08

No, it did. They said it felt like a TikTok feed, just because it was so many brands that you hear of and that you see pop up on your on your feed, and you all of a sudden, like they come out of nowhere, exactly like the Dubai Chocolate, like they come out of nowhere, and all of a sudden they're, they're everywhere, right? And it was, it was really funny to see, and I think it also speaks to what you were saying, and I think what you wrote about in your Women's Wear Daily article about the toyification of beauty and seeing, I think some of those products as collectibles, whereas, like older generations, I think I can include mine in there. We used to have like, one or two fragrances, maybe switching up for the summer. That was in the past, and now it's just, I think, what's the what's the term? I think, wardrobing fragrance. So you have all of those different fragrances for your different moods, and that's how the new generations and now that's like seeping into other generations as well. Is really consuming beauty, and especially fragrance. Because I think, if you remember, we checked some of those brands and some of those fragrances on the show like to see what the price were. It was quite affordable. It was like in the 20, like the 20s dollars, things like this. It's really like affordable fragrances that are viral. And I think that's that's really what you see on on social. And that makes me think of like another thing I saw outside the show, but still in Miami, I was walking into the Five Below that's on Lincoln Road. And the first thing, I don't know if they knew Cosmoprof was in town, and they, like, did it on purpose, but the first thing that you saw when you got into the store was, like, this cute mini, actually, like, bigger than this fridge that was called, like a beauty mini fridge. That's how it was labeled. That's how it was sold. It was like $35 I think. And so it's really like that shift in mentality about how you consume beauty, how you see beauty. Now you have like a fridge, instead of having like, your like, just like one closet with a few products. Now you have a fridge to keep them like cold and to keep all of your products at a good temperature. So I thought that was like having this at the show and then in the streets at the Five Below.

Wendy L. 11:31

Yeah, it's interesting you say that too, because I remember our colleague Candace Corlett talking a few years ago about her nieces who had these little mini fridges to put their skin care products in that they got from either the Detox Market or Clean Market or something. And here we were, there's Five Below, which is brilliant at dupes and knocking stuff off. And there, when you when you made that comment, you know what? What else reminded me when you were talking about back to fragrance for a minute was the impressive display boost that Dossier had. And French companies done a really good job in providing affordable fragrances to whomever really but they were, they were very aggressive at the show. I thought that was, that was a little cleaner. When I say cleaner, I don't mean disrespectfully, but a list less shiny than Middle Eastern fragrances, but, but they were there too, with a big presence and gaming and, you know, your ability to get a free box, free fragrance. Yeah, they're, they're with respect. But back to the social piece, one of the other things that struck me, and I know it struck you, was literally walked around the floor and almost every major thoroughfare had somebody, either one of the brands at one of the booths, filming live coverage, or certainly TikTok potential or social media coverage. Some of the booths were designed so people would actually, you know, you could sort of get up and not do your own selfie, but I suppose you could, yeah, we did, sort of, didn't we. But anyway, so it felt like that was the third trend in the room that or in the in the hall, that it was glossy, glossy, shiny, over the top, Middle Eastern fragrance. It was more calm, cool, collected, South Korean. And then over everything was this extraordinary sort of social brand that people were filming everything with stands and whatever.

Elia 13:29

Well, I think it goes, it goes. With the trend, right? It's, it's not only those are viral brands that come with, like, viral trends on social, but now social invites itself at those shows. Because, I mean, I think it was talked about in a few of the panels as well. Like influencers are really a part of, like, beauty brands marketing They have a community. They know how to talk to their community, and if you're interested in that community, then you have to, like, trust them, to take your product and use them in the way they know their community will enjoy using your products. And it's really interesting. I would actually be curious to ask the Cosmoprof team, out of like, all of the I know they have usually like press, press badges, press registration, how many of this like press now is social influencers, or those sort of profiles that are more online because we saw so many people like filming themselves, whether just like with their phone and like with a whole apparatus, and the booths are definitely like the Latafa booth was just you wanted to take pictures everywhere. It was just like made for this. I think there's another brand, I think, called Luseta, which is a hair care brand from California. I think they always have this huge booth with a little stand that you can get on and also take pictures. So I think it's really changed even in a B to B environment, the social element, really now is part of that. The influencers and and social influencers are really part of that environment, and that wheelhouse

Wendy L. 15:13

If you went to the Dossier booth and you wanted to get this, you know, custom fragrance. They what you had to do was actually go through the process of, you know, downloading the hashtag, taking a picture in front of something at the booth, and and, you know, posting it. And once you've done that, and they can see it on their feed, then you were able to get your custom fragrance. So you're absolutely right B to B, not just, you know, consumer based proposition. I think the other thing that's interesting and and for those of you who are listening today or watching, I don't know if you've yet or hurry up and do it, listen to our last podcast with Kelsie Johnston. And Kelsie came out of digital and physical retail, and most recently, TikTok Shop, where she was very instrumental in building the beauty franchise there. And she talks a lot about this, and I think it's really worthy of you going back and having listening, having a listen to what Kelsie said, because it does the context the story that Elia’s talking about here. Those two things connect in in all of this, which I think is, is it's important to see where this is all moving and and how quickly the other thing, Elia, were there two things, really, one of the things that sort of jumping back and forth a bit. But I thought about technology beyond the sort of social side of this, we saw some custom product machinery that you could customize nail and foundation right on that side as well. Yeah.

Elia 16:41

I mean, honestly, I think I expected. I don't know what I expected, but AI is such a big thing that everyone throws around, even in beauty, that I expected more. There wasn't much around AI, except, like, more on, like, the operational side, the machinery side, all of that. But then in terms of business facing or consumer facing. AI, there were a couple notable booths. I think we visited the Osmo booth. Osmo AI, which is a digital scent design company. They create custom fragrances with their I think they have their proprietary AI that is trained by human and like perfumery professionals. You had also Blank Beauty, which is the custom nail polish, and they also do custom foundation. That's like using AI, I think the custom nail polish machines are at Walmart. Is that correct? Yeah, that's in their new in their new test concept, yeah, we also had, I think we did, the company called iRomaScents AI Wizard, where you could, this was more of a retail tool, where you had a screen where you could select like based on your preferences and your age and what sort of sense. If you navigate towards in general, you could put all of those information, and then it would give you a few fragrances that you maybe would like to try. And then it with a little paper that you put under the machine. It actually, like sprays it on your paper, so you can, you only have to send whatever feels good to you, and not like a million bottles until you found find yours. So there were a couple of booths. But I think the talk of the town, if I may say, was really just TikTok Shop and social and it just over. It overtook anything AI that could have been talked about. So it'll be interesting to see if, if in Vegas in a few months, there's more, yeah, more innovation around AI, yeah.

Wendy L. 18:51

The panel I moderated, which was about going global, and how do you as a newer or a smaller brand think about that? The discussion around social communities actually surfaced there as well, because in one of the previous one of the other panels, one of the executives, actually one of the founders of Beekman 1802 had said, Listen, if you're not $100 million brand, don't think about going outside North America. That was sort of contradicted in a number of ways. Certainly, on the panel that I did, but because we had brands that were much smaller than that, that actually are growing globally, outside their home markets. And as you recall Elia, that you know they're growing because, not because, yes, because they're looking for growth, but because people around the world now, through social communities, can know of these brands, and ask, you know, to get it or order online in some way, and then the retailers looking for new businesses or new categories, new brands. Are looking at social media and saying, Okay, let us try that one. So one of the panelists was the head of sales for a company called Naked Sundays that is based in Australia, sun care, skin care brand that's now in not only Australia and on Amazon, but in in the UK and in Canada and in the US. It is not $100 million brand yet, but it's growing because people know about it through social media, and it's got a lot of followers, a lot of influencers having impact. Mario Badescu, which started off as a spa brand, now sells around the world. And we had Ali Kole, who was, who was formerly at Amazon and Sephora LVMH and most recently at Charlotte Tilsbury, you know, again, the three of them talked about the power of social and community building to open doors for brands everywhere. So I think your point about seeing that as sort of the third big thing was, was, was pretty self evident in all of that, in all of that conversation. The other thing I thought was interesting is some of the things you and I saw be actually before we actually while we're hanging around the airport trying to get on the plane and and I think you were rightly so most taken by the stores in LaGuardia, right? Talk a bit about that.

Elia 21:26

Yeah, the Bowery Bay shops, as I now know they're called, because I wrote my Shopping Life™ on it. Yeah. So we had a couple hours to kill at LaGuardia airport because of the storm and the cancelations and all that fun stuff. And I had been, I had been through this, like these shops before, and I had noticed the beauty corner. And it really is, to me, it really is a textbook example of how you can like, how retail can curate for beauty discovery, I think there's one of the takeaways that I have from the show is that there are, it's not new, right? But there are so many brands. There's so many brands that offer like, similar benefits, similar concepts. And as a shopper, like, I'm not like, I am a beauty shopper. I'm not like, constantly online and not and I see all these brands like, how do I, how do I figure it out? Like, what's, what's for me amongst, like, the sea of newness. And I think what the beauty corner at Laguardia Airport does really well is just like, curation. So like, here's what we think you'll enjoy. And there are newish brands, like newer brands, indie, you would call them, like Photography, Kitsch, those sort of brands among some of the more classic brands that you'll find in an airport, like travel retail, for example, and so they did a really good job at creating that choice for people with something exciting, which is honestly rare when you shop at an airport. So I don't know for everyone, but that's, that's my my hot take is like a smaller footprint. Trend forward. The brands were interesting. The discovery felt exciting, not overwhelming. So it was really like a good I don't know it was a good experience for for us and and I think it talks about how, like, the role of retail in like that world of new brands that pop up every month, new concepts, new everything, like indie brands, innovative brands, everything that's coming on the market. I think retailers have a role to play in making it easier, easy, easier for the shopper to figure out what's for them and what will work for them and what's worth their time, because they have the socials for like discovery. They can. I mean, as you said, like, as it was said on your panel, but like before, people would only know about whatever was in their country and whatever was in their like department store. Now, everyone has access to every brand around the world. You know about everything, and you can pretty much purchase everything, but the role of the retailer will become then to curate all of that into, like, a really thoughtful assortment of brands, of trends, of things that actually work, that have that had been, like, peer reviewed, or whatever you want to call it, and just like, add that element of trust for the shopper in, like, on their shopping journey, on their beauty shopping,

Wendy L. 24:54

Yeah, and I think what you just said there is so important, and why we are thinking about where, when we think about the future of retail and future of shopping, you know, first of all, I think what would you just said was, as I think about travel retail, which used to be quite specialized, and, you know, all the big sort of global brands that you used to in my day, think you've got a discounted price, you know, whether it was all the big national globals, and that feels quite different now. So that's one thing. The second, I think, is the fact that so many people travel, and we're not all stuck in snowstorms, but so many people travel, and it's a much more democratic journey now in many ways. So the ability to expose and share new brands and new stories in travel retail, not just think about, oh, I'm going to they'll know that brand and it's a discount or whatever it was. So I think that was really impressive when you walked through that. And the way that was the whole the whole shopping experience actually was curated. You should all know that Elia is a big LEGO fan, as is Katie on our team, and so the LEGO shop was where she probably spent more time than anything. But we won't go there. The other thing I will say that I found fascinating They had a resale department for high end luxury accessories, so expensive handbags like a RealReal, where you could buy a Louis Vuitton tote or Gucci bag, and again, resale that they'd created as part of this experience as well. So all of a sudden you had this really interesting microcosm of where retail is headed and discovery, curation, surprise different categories. And I think it's what that says to me and Elia, I know you're, you know, a convert of this as as we all are at our office, our company, is look for inspiration in places you might normally not think to and if you're a retailer, absolutely look for where your competition is, because it's not necessarily in the store that looks like you or stands like you or sells what you sell. There are lots of places people can spend their money on lots of things. And I think you said Five Below, we said the airport, aside from what we saw on the on the floor at Cosmoprof. So I think there was a lot to be said for that experience. And again, getting out from behind your desk, right? We love to take people on our Retail Safaris® and retail immersions with key retailers. So keep that in mind as well.

Elia 27:323

I think Ali Kole said that on your panel, said viral signs are only one piece of the puzzle. I think that's really important to keep in mind, especially today, as more and more brands like beauty brands just flood the market, and not in a negative way. But it's just like the reality of it is that there's so many new brands that are like popping up every day. I think viral signs are only one piece of the puzzle, in the sense that it's good to have that, but you also need like retail. I think what this show also proved, and I think it was echoed by a lot of the panelists and the industry experts and people we talked to is that retail is far from dead and really has a role to play in making that virality a thing in store and like a staple of shop, like beauty shopping. So that was my, my last thought to sort of wrap it up,

Wendy L. 28:32

yeah, I think that's, that's a really powerful comment. And the one last thing I would say is that one of the things that I thought was surprisingly missing was the, you know, we talk a lot about wellness and how beauty and wellness have converged. People think very holistically about their health, well being, whatever we want to call it inside out. Maybe that was there with the K beauty, but it didn't feel like there was as much overtness about health and wellness

Elia 29:05

There was a sort of global message on the skincare side that was efficacy and clinically proven and like medically reviewed, or whatever you call it, whereas before you had, like, the clean brands and The natural brands and the sustainable brands, and you had a little more diversity in the messaging,

Wendy L. 29:24

I think it's, I think the point you made is really important is that, you know, we think about all these trends. You know, we think about clean, we think about sustainable. And what we see both in our own How America Shops®, research, in our innovation, work that we do, where we look at retail around the world, in the shoppers and retailers we talk to that some of this stuff has evolved. And, you know, they're some of the questions we get asked all the time, right about, Are people really willing to pay for or looking for clean brands or sustainable brands, or is that just a price of entry, and they expect people to be more transparent about what they're saying and selling, you know, Yuka, look at the ingredients on my app, kind of thing. For us, at least at WSL, we're always trying to sort of connect the dots and watch the shifting patterns with shoppers and the implication at retail. So I think going to a show like this with its different tracks helps you see a lot, and then it really requires us, as we always do, to stop and think about as I often say, what does that mean? And I think that's what you raised in that in that commentary. So lots to see on that very short trip, and delayed both ways by weather, but we certainly made the made good use of good use of our time and effort and people on the ground and things we learned. So thank you for coming on Future Shop again. You always bring not only a European flavor, but a very thoughtful flavor

Elia 34:54

Thank you for having me. This was fun.

Wendy L. 34:55

Anytime, anytime. So for everybody, just to sort of summarize, I think there are two or three things. One, very clearly, is get out from behind your desks, see what's going on out there. There is a lot when you're in the beauty business. I think Elia said it very clearly, there is so much newness coming out at the moment that there is a sort of, take a breath, step back, if you're a consumer and a shopper, saying what's relevant to me now, and how do I find what I want easily? And is it through social media and social media shopping? Of course, we've done a study on that. Is it through AI we're about to launch a study on that. What is it we're seeing in the marketplace? What is it you need to see in the marketplace? And I think there, there are a lot of shifts that are going on now that we can see when we get out from our desks and spend time both in stores and in places that really drive that sense of newness and innovation and trend. So push back your chairs from your desk and get up and either come with us and sign up to one of our retail immersions, Retail Safaris®, click on the link and subscribe to podcasts from us. Tell us how you like us and come and join the journey, because there's a lot going on in the future of retail right now. Cheers for now.