Wendy 00:10

Hello, everyone. I'm Wendy Liebmann, CEO and chief shopper at WSL Strategic Retail. And this is Future Shop. This is where I talk to, as you know, iconoclast disruptors. Oh, no, that's the wrong order. Disruptors, icono... oh well, whatever. Today I'm talking to the iconoclast of all iconoclasts, maybe disruptor of all disruptors, my partner in crime and business. Candace Corlett, hello, Candace Corlett, welcome to Future Shop.

Candace 00:42

Hi, Wendy, and I love disrupter.

Wendy 00:45

Yes, I knew you picked that one of the three that we use. So, you know,

Candace 00:46

I don't even know what iconoclast means in this context.

Wendy 00:47

Oh, sure, shaking up the established order. Isn't that what we want to do, shake up the established order. So on this note, many things to discuss today. First, happy, sad news. Happy for me, sad for you, baseball world. Sorry about the Mets. We were hoping for a Subway Series. You have to bring that up. I do. I do because I was hoping for a Subway Series. And we've been through that before, and you know, I won, so I was hoping we would have that, but we will not. So does that mean you'll support the Yankees because you don't like the Dodgers?

Candace 01:32

Oh no, I'm a Dodger fan, a Dodger Dodgers. Okay, okay, long live the Brooklyn Dodgers.

Wendy 01:40

So we sound like Peter Bond and Sri Rajagopalan from the CPG guys, because Peter is a huge Dodger fan, and three is a big Yankee fan. So the two of them are as happy as clams. So I don't know if we've got money on it, but we could, we could put, you know, a cupcake on this. So, so that was the sad happy news. Happy happy news. Happy anniversary to you and me and all at WSL, because it's our was our anniversary last week or the week before? I've lost track. Who could believe what? Where has the time gone as we

Candace 02:17

38 years...

Wendy 02:18

Did you have to mention that? I don't know where the timeline.

Candace 02:23

I'm proud of it.

Wendy 02:24

Oh, me too. Just a child, um, starting out, falling out of bed one day and saying it's about the shopper, stupid. I continue to be not only very proud of all the troops, but how we do disrupt and force our clients to feel a little bit uncomfortable about the future, but then bring them insights and solutions to say, here's what's next. We're continuing on that disruptive shopper strategy journey. I'm just back from London, where we did a wonderful event with our partners, the Emerson Group and RetailMediaIQ on the future of commerce. 2030, more to come on that one, everybody, we've got lots of content and great pictures and things which we will share with you later. Speaking of the future, one of the topics that I wanted you to talk about today was we're starting to hear from clients about the next generation of shoppers, Gen A. And you know, we've been looking at this. And as you always tell everybody, look at the small numbers. But we're hearing a lot from a number of clients about what is Gen A? What should we be doing? When are they coming? What should we think? And I say to myself sometimes. What is the fuss all about here? Who are these people? And is this really the white space we should be thinking about in the 25, 26 or is it a bit up the road?

Candace 03:51

You know, I think it's a long way up the road. I think we have bigger fish to fry right now, starting with the 50 plus audience who represent 35% of the population and outnumber Millennials by 125 to 72 million.

Wendy 04:17

But before we jump to that, tell me, you know, just to ground this Gen A discussion. I mean, these are what 11 year olds to is it nine

Candace 04:28

up to 14

Wendy 04:29

Yeah. And so they are not mostly spending their own money. They're probably influencing spending more than they are actually spending. Is that true, or am I jumping the gun?

Candace 04:41

No, that's true. But they have, you know, they are very knowledgeable, because they ask Alexa everything, and they learn how to phrase questions in terms of Alexa. But they also have their own language. And you need to know that language before you talk to them, influenced by Tiktok, Snapchat and Twitch.

Wendy 05:10

So they've grown up in a different world. You know, we talked about Gen Zs and younger Millennials, you know, popping out of the womb, excuse the expression, with an iPhone in their hands, this group really have. They don't know anything else but that digital culture and influence culture, I guess. And you're saying they have a unique vernacular with that. My question when clients ask us, should we be thinking about them? Is, of course, you should always be thinking about them, because they are the next ones, and they are, you know, on the horizon, but they still are away from having their own money. But they certainly influence the household, which younger shoppers have always done, right?

Candace 05:54

Yes, they do, yeah, and they, you know, a lot of spending goes against them. I think it's $5.4 billion but you know, you see them in restaurants, you know they're always on the iPad. It's the new babysitter when parents want an excuse to take a nap and they go out to restaurants and they don't learn conversation, but that's how they get so smart. Yeah, they are always experiencing something new. And you know, parents start them out in sports at three, and Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts now accept kindergarteners, so they are very knowledgeable, and they're growing up quickly.

Wendy 06:46

But for our audience, the commentary that you began with, which is, if you're looking for white space, if you're looking for growth, and I know we hear this from our retailers and traffic, yeah well, that's what I was going to say this whole conversation today, in the last few months, particularly from the retailers we know well, whether it's luxury or whether it's mass, across any kinds of channel, format, this whole conversation about traffic, about volume, unit, volume, you know, there are other white space opportunities that are right there for the for the asking. Rest assured, we are keeping an eye on that Gen A generation, and we are continuing to look and mine and understand and spend our time doing that. That said, that's not the immediate opportunity in the next year or 18 months. And so one of them that Candace alluded to in the beginning is very much the conversation around 50 plus. You know, Gen X, whatever you want to call them, as a generation, and then into into younger boomers. I mean, what is how many millions of people did you say in that ? And that's

Candace 07:59

125 million. And within that there, you know, you don't take 125 million people and think they're all homogenous, right? Um, they are definitely refurbishing their houses for empty nest. And thinking about... the big movement is I want to stay in place as I age. I want my neighbors and I want my house to accommodate an aging population,

Wendy 08:32

but they're also, it would seem to me to your point about it's a very big group. So as we slice and dice them, we have to think about them in terms of what their what their lifestyle preferences are, working, not working. You know, retired need must have, having to work. But also, as you already alluded to, you've already talked about home and some of the opportunities around, you know, being comfortable in space, in our own spaces, whether it's still having a 28 year old, 26 year old, whatever year old still in the house, working from home, working from somewhere else or not. You read so you've alluded to home, travel, fashion and beauty, we could add in, right? Fitness, Health, with that, food, beverage, pets, all of those categories, right? Right?

Candace 09:21

The vitamins and supplements, big vitamin and supplement takers, right? But, you know, the question that looms is, is 50 plus lower on category penetration because they're being ignored, and is that the solution?

Wendy 09:40

What's interesting, too. You know, we've had Michael Clinton on this podcast and at our Health Symposium, Future of Health Symposium over the summer, and with his whole proposition around Roar Forward into the Future, and he talks about longevity and people living different lifestyles and and and addressing the appropriately in media, in the right media people thinking about new, as I say, lifestyles versus life stages. And he has a very optimistic view of the opportunity, which is encouraging. And so everybody referenced that podcast with Michael, and then we had Reema from AARP and talking about the role of caregiving and the importance of that. We've done a lot of work on that space, which also builds into that kind of sandwich generation.

Candace 10:33

Right, and the millennials and Gen X bear the brunt of caregiving, and you do have to wonder they are caregivers to children. They are caregivers to older people. And you do have to wonder if their higher stress levels come from that dual responsibility, and how can retailers and brands ease that stress?

Wendy 11:00

Yeah, and that, that whole conversation, then, I mean, now we're talking about 50 plus by themselves, 50 plus in their many different permutations. We're talking about caregivers, and that could be, as you said, Millennials or Gen X or older, which are right in our face as opportunities for growth, right,

Candace 11:22

Right, and if you need traffic in your stores, we've done research on 50 plus and 65 plus, and they are in the stores every day.

Wendy 11:36

So you know we've got two new so here we are pitching, really, on two fronts. One is opportunities that are closer at hand when we're looking for growth. We're talking about two new pieces of research that we have that are now available as you look at this opportunity around this 50 plus, and all the segments of those people, and the opportunity that complication around caregiving and who those people are and where the opportunities are. It's not poo poo in the idea of younger generations by any means, but it is understanding the sort of closer in opportunity across category, right?

Candace 12:15

And 125 million people, 35% of the population, is not to be ignored,

Wendy 12:22

Yeah, well, and sometimes they are being ignored. That's the issue.

Candace 12:26

That's the issue. Why are cosmetics and skin creams not advertised to the people that need them?and why is the focus on Gen A? whenGen A doesn't need skin care at all.

Wendy 12:42

Maybe some acne products or something, sunscreen, all of those, We fortunately have seen more and more people use it, more and more of the younger people using sunscreen, which is always encouraging, but that's, I think that's what Michael talks a lot about, right? He talks a lot about these sort of preconceived notions, right? Discomfort. I think you're right with AARP and roar and a lot of conversation going on now around more conversation going around about 50 plus and older. We know our, some of our other friends and colleagues and clients are, you know, thinking about Gen X as a, you know, a group that's underserved, but it really does require us to stop talking about and get on with it. You know that this, this does require getting past the preconceptions and the mythology and into the details. So that's a that's a new piece of work that we have done. We've always tracked this audience, so we can trend it. We can look at across categories and channels across a lot of attitudes, sentiments, not just in purchase behavior. So that's an opportunity. But, you know, in these days, when we're really looking for volume and traffic across lots of businesses, it's, it's, really is important for us to go beyond the bright, shiny subject, which is Gen A.

Candace 13:04

And you know, the pharmaceutical crowd really has it nailed. They find very attractive people as spokespersons for their products. But you do wonder why, as Michael Clinton says, why don't we use some of those people for fashion and beauty?

Wendy 14:21

I think that's part of it. I think we keep hitting these stereotypes, and so all of you do three things: One, look at our new research, because it'll give you a better understanding. And it's not just this. Oh, dear. You know, who are these people and why aren't they staying at home and not showing their faces. Two, listen to the podcast with Michael, because he really does help you see some of the dimensions on a more optimistic basis. Listen to the podcast we did with AARP, because that'll give you a sense of some of the other issues people are facing in this in this age segment. But I do. Think the bigger issue, the bigger point, is this, when we look at where they shop, how they shop, what's important to them, that's really the goal here. That's really the opportunity. I hate to say golden opportunity, because that's the way we've so often talked about people in their 50s, which is, you know, most many of us

Candace 15:21

And yes, they have a lot of conditions, but chasing the millennial family is bogus, because it's rapidly disappearing. The average birth rate is 1.6 children per household. And when we look at 28% of people who are single, that's not an opportunity, because they buy small sizes and they don't repeat by, you know,

Wendy 15:58

yeah, well, and sometimes they sometimes they live at home, so all of those things, but so, you know, I guess our call to action on this one is, yes, Gen A, we need to keep an eye on them. They're going to be right in front of our wall, shelves, digital spaces, actually using their own credit cards sooner than we know. They're certainly using their parents at the moment. They're certainly influencers, if not direct spenders. They're certainly shoppers, and we see the implications of that, so we don't want to walk away from that. But what we're all saying to you, what we're both saying to you, really and all our team, is don't necessarily be misled by the bright, shiny object. Think about where the opportunities are right now, in terms of growth, in terms of traffic, in terms of volume, in terms of categories, but it's not the same story you have to tell and so lot on that, right? Yeah,

Candace 16:59

they are supermarket, drugstore and mass merchant shoppers. They are not dollar store shoppers. That is a new habit among Hispanics and millennials, but they support the traditional forms of retail, in-store retail

Wendy 17:21

And of course, they are Amazon shoppers, and they are, you know, ALDI shoppers...

Candace 17:26

and they are very technological, yeah, you know. And that's where the segmentation comes in, because people who are in their 60s grew up using computers at work. We see them going online to look at circulars, downloading digital coupons. They may not use their mobile in store as much as younger people, but they go in prepared with the digital coupons.

Wendy 18:01

So again, it says, let's break away from the mythology. There's 125 million people opportunity out there. That's, that's a big number we will all be happy to have, right? So that one, the other one, just briefly to talk about, is the new study I call 'Trust Me or Don't' I know that's not the right title, but work we're doing a lot about trust, and it's very timely, because here we are, in a moment, having an election that most of us would like to be over. But this notion of frustration, lack of trust, of not only institutions, but in some cases, it could be brands, it could be retailers. You know, years ago, we did that work that said, who do we trust? And it was friends and strangers, you know. And in some ways, that hasn't changed much. So just thinking about all of that in the context of, again, how do we break through the mythology, and how do we build, dare I say, loyalty, not just a discount program, but real loyalty to a brand. So any, any just quick insights that we're seeing in that one.

Candace 19:16

I'm particularly impressed with what we're calling the messy middle. Which categories are worth paying a premium for? The messy middle is it essentially says I will pay a premium for a category, a brand, in a category, and if I don't feel a category is worth that, there are a lot of store brands that are good brands, and we know from our research that shoppers think they're innovative, the packaging is good and you know they're it's a likely alternative, and if you're not in a category where shoppers think I will pay a premium for that, and if you're not a shopper who's willing to pay because you think there will be better quality...and I'm very interested to see that rank order of categories.

Wendy 20:15

So that comes out in a new piece of work we're publishing in a couple of weeks. You know, it's interesting. You said that, not getting the jump on the conversation coming from the London trip. But, you know, speaking of vitamins and, you know, mineral supplements, whatever, you know, that was one of the things that was pretty clear here. We've gotten used to either you go to Costco and you buy the whatever pack, branded pack, but or you're in the, you know, drugstore or the supermarket, even my local supermarket has the yellow stickies now, buy one, get one 50% off. Was a bad lesson they learned from from the drugstores. But when you looked at it in the in London, particularly in a Holland & Barrett, or a Boots, or even a Tesco, it was more about the level of solutions presented the ease of shopping around, whether it was gut health or use of GLP-1s, what I have to, you know, take to supplement that, or it was the kind of service and information that you got. So the the product by itself, was only part of the overall experience. So I think that's the other that's the other bit in this, as we start to look at more of the experiences than looking at the overarching discussion around the product by itself is enough. And I think even a brand like e.l.f. in the beauty space, which doesn't just do cheap and cheerful, it innovates across lots of you know, product formulations.

Candace 21:43

Did you see their new ad about democratizing beauty?

Wendy 21:46

Oh yeah, yeah. They've been, they've taken on, they have taken on so many issues, like excuse the expression, 'too many dicks on the board' about inclusiveness. They are very it's a, it's a brand value statement that is, and it doesn't cost that much. So it's not about the cheap and cheerful. It's about this is the sort of place I believe and the experience and the values I want. So yeah, you've raised a lot of points here that I think for our audience. So in summary, there are so many opportunities here with established, really big segments of the population, and we've talked about that in a lot of our upcoming research, as well as existing work that you who people you know pay attention to, because we'll be telling you about Gen A as we go,

Candace 22:32

And follow the shopper...

Wendy 22:33

That's right, to see the future, and that is much required at this moment. So well, sorry about the Mets. Let's go Yankees. I'm not that confident. I think, Hey, Peter Bond, it's probably dodges in six, but we'll see. We will see. Thank you, my dear. Happy Anniversary. Okay, see you all in the future. Cheers. You.