Wendy 00:10

Hello, everyone. I'm Wendy Liebmann, CEO and chief shopper at WSL Strategic Retail, and this is Future Shop. This is where I talk to innovators, disruptors and iconoclasts about the future of retail. But before I begin, I have a request. Don't panic. No money required. You know, you are a wonderful audience from all around the world, but many of you have not officially subscribed to this podcast. So would you please do it? Just a great way to start the year. Nothing to pay. Just go to wherever you listen to us, whether it's Spotify or Apple or YouTube, our own website, wherever, just click and subscribe. You know what that enables us to do is know you're there, which is great. Have a conversation and tell us, did you like it? Didn't you like it? A comment. What else you'd like to hear? It just helps us build a relationship, and that would be wonderful. We would really appreciate that. So thanks for doing it. And back to the conversation.

Here we are at the beginning of the year, and everybody's talking about being healthier in many different ways, and it seems only appropriate that we dig deeper into that conversation about wellness, and think about one of the hot topics of the moment that we saw over the last two to three years, really, which is about women's wellness, specifically, and specifically as it relates to sexual health and wellness. You know, there's been so much going on in this space over the last few years with product innovators like Womaness and Stripes and clinics for women such as HerMD and Tia. I mean, I think for most of the health and wellness industry and many of the retailers who are listening in, this is a very compelling space, and we see big CPG companies entering the space. Femtech is now a real area for investment. But meanwhile, if you walk around retailers, they're still trying to figure it out. If you go into stores, if you look at departments, sometimes it's hard to tell where all this is reaching, the shopper, the customer, the woman in particular. So that's what we're going to talk about today. My guest is Catherine Magee. She and I are going to discuss where we are on this journey, what barriers exist, and how to deliver what women want in ways that are good for all of us, whoever we are at whatever age and wherever we sell our products. So welcome, Catherine,

Catherine 02:52

Thank you so much for having me just like you. I continue to be more and more engrossed and very excited about all this space and all the people wanting to create better products and services, because they're long overdue for women of every age.

Wendy 03:12

Your background is so fascinating to me, because aside from this endeavor with your co-founder, Sandy Vakovic, that passion you have always had for in the broader health and beauty space. So tell me a little bit about your background and how you and Sandy began this journey.

Catherine 03:32

Yep, so it started out almost 20 years ago when I had the fortune of getting a job, to work at L’Oréal and to get my first exposure in beauty, and then, shortly thereafter, moved to the San Francisco Bay area to work for, at the time, a very small, fast growing startup called Bare Essentials, now mostly referred to as Bare Minerals. And so it was very early on that I that I realized what I loved most is to make products that make women feel really good about themselves, to build their confidence and really empower them. I mean, that is really what beauty is all about. And so I fell in love with with delivering that to consumers and just having the ability to learn from the best of the best at a company like Bare Minerals, and then at a company like Rodan & Fields, and having had those great experiences, It was very apparent to me, when you looked at women's sexual health and wellness, particularly four or so years ago, that they weren't delivering those things right. They it. You know, we say, oh, it's about shame and stigma. But the way I like to phrase it to people is that we've made women feel like they. Of a problem, and that something is wrong with them, and and I and by the way, like 100% of women go through menopause, 100% of women have periods. It is the one thing that we all have in common. So how can it be a problem? Even going back to the analogy of beauty, because I love, I love that analogy. I think some beauty brands do a great job of really empowering and making women feel wonderful. Mascara companies don't say, Wow, your eyelashes are dry, brittle and ugly. They wear mascara, it'll make you look beautiful and feel confident. And so why is that narrative? Why don't women deserve that narrative in this space? So it was that passion and what I thought was really, really missing that drove me to leave the beauty industry and go into this category.

Wendy 05:57

So interesting you say that because I remember in the day, you know, the Bare Essentials , Bare MineralMinerals and the amazing Leslie and all of the that that passion around that space, which was also about confidence and corrective skin care, you know, it felt like it was part of being part of a very proud community of lots of women, building this extraordinary culture around a brand and a business, and then, of course, disrupting the world with Rodan & Fields in the more in the more specific healthcare space that there feels like there was always that, that trend or that, or that line through all of that. So you just reminded me of, of all the the the amazing women, doctors or others who who have been in the space. so that passion, I mean, you, you raised the point about the topic of sexual health as being sort of stigmatized. I mean, from the moment a young girl gets her period to the moment those of us of an age sit there and get all hot and sweaty at night or anywhere else, it seems so extraordinary to me that it's always been something that has not been taken with. I won't say always joy, but taken with joy and passion about being a woman. So when you think about that, how is it, how has it changed in the four years that you and Sandy began this journey? How are you seeing that change?

Catherine 07:38

Yes, and we certainly could talk about the, you know, generational viewpoints and stigma, but the two things that I think have made the biggest impact is the overall shift in attitudes around health and wellness, right? Because sexual health and wellness is the last frontier of overall health and wellness and so that so you have that trend, and then you have social media that's helping to sort of catalyze these conversations. And I think that's what we're seeing today, right? Like not one brand can catalyze and create these conversations, and we're seeing that happen now in social media, across all different constituents, whether it's empowered women, new entrepreneurs and leaders, and also very exciting, exciting doctors, right? And and then again, you know, maybe you weren't ready to talk about pleasure, and maybe you weren't ready to talk about sex, but you are really wanting to talk about health. And then all of a sudden, you have to remember, right, that 60 million women in the in the US suffer from some sort of sexual health, pleasure and issue, that's a lot of women, right? And whether it's affecting your relationship, or whether it's because you're postpartum or you have a vaginal infection. So, so it's actually a really relevant conversation. So I can see that once, once the ice starts to break, or when, once that starts to happen, it's just gonna catalyze and get bigger and bigger. You

Wendy 09:12

you and I met under the auspices of Dr. Somi Javaid and her and her sister, Kamel Caruso and HerMD, and the journey they've been on to support women and menopause, but also women and their own health and wellness, and that, that openness of conversation, I remember so me, when I first met her, talking about women spend, I think it was 40% of their life in menopause, but thinking about that conversation in much more overt ways. And to your point, about the role of social media and discussion around that in more open ways, when you started your business, it was at the. The beginning of the pandemic, wasn't

Catherine 10:01

it? Yep. So we founded the business in July 2020, we didn't come to market until two years later, because one of the that, one of the things that we really wanted to do is create products that we felt were really targeted and would fix women's issue. And so, you know, most products that go that that interact with the vaginal walls are regulated by the FDA. So we have, we were very ambitious in wanting to create unique, proprietary, better, clean formulations and then get that FDA approval before we launched into market.

Wendy 10:41

Well, now I was sort of come at the end before the beginning. Just tell everybody what are the products that are part of the Playground portfolios. So everybody sort of got a frame of reference, and then we'll talk about, you know, this, this notion, this notion of, you know, openness and thinking about that good health is also good sexual health and wellness. So tell us, yeah, tell us what the portfolio looks like. I think

Catherine 11:07

that we're seeing massive change almost every day, certainly big differences year over year, but we're still very early on in the the creation of this category. I've talked to some folks who have really dived into it and are like, this could be as big as the beauty category or just that behind in offering women products. And we certainly look at it that way. We view ourselves as a women's sexual wellness company that creates vaginal health and sexual wellness products, and we launched two and a half years ago with a line of proprietary vaginal lubricants. And we did so because we felt like what was really lacking in that area of the sexual wellness market was any better in a it was an innovation in general and and also, not just speaking to women, but also saying, we understand. We've done our research, we've worked with our chemists and scientists. We want to use the right ingredients here that but that promote better vaginal health. So that's where we are. We just recently launched a vaginal serum and a lubricant that has been clinically proven to decrease and prevent UTIs and bacterial vaginosis. So we really look, are we? We look at the intersection of pleasure and health, and how can our products impact both? And that's the beginning of our journey. And you know all there's a lot of things changing in this category. What's also changing is these old categories that really don't service women, right? So, like, if you think about lubricants, lubricants were made for male pleasure. They weren't really initially developed as a health product, so, but women didn't have solutions for these so the for their problems, so they had to go and find products on the market that were just okay. So what I really think is going to happen is, as we really focus on women's sexual health and wellness, new types of products and new types of categories are going to emerge and just completely displace these other categories, these other Yeah, categories to do.

Wendy 13:38

you do think about the shelf in a, you know, drugstore or mass merchant, or even a specialty store, really, now that people like Ulta sell wellness, sexual wellness products, or they call it wellness products, you know, you'd see a KY Jelly. Or, to your point, you know, very, very little that talk to both the physical issues and emotional issues that women might have, and they were not products that spoke in a in a vernacular like your your products do, which feel very friendly and approachable, as well as very serious in their efficacy. So I think that balance is feels also very fresh and new within the in the marketplace,

Catherine 14:22

I can see that right now, it is a challenge, and it is confusing, you know, because you have aisles and websites set up to focus on these traditional categories, but then, then you're like, wait a second, is that a woman's health product, or is that a pleasure product, right? And so we know, as a as an entrepreneur, we're just trying to solve the core need and and, yes, disrupt the like, disrupt the products in the market, but it's also changing the category. And I would liken it to sunscreen. Sunscreen, for for very long time, was only. Sold in food, drug and Mass. You could only find it in a grocery store or in a Walgreens. And then sure, certain brands led the way. But what really happened is, wait a second. Sunscreen is really important for anti aging. Sunscreen is actually a really important skin care product. And then it and then it took a couple years, but then people started shopping for sunscreen as a skincare product. That is how I see this category. For a lot of people, they still think, oh, traditional, you know, traditional these products where I'm like, No, it is a health product now. So, so, you know, I'm excited to see this transformation take place at work through the lens of health and not through a definition that was created 50 plus years ago.

Wendy 15:52

It just feels to your point that there is just this, this massive opportunity to talk to women about their overarching needs in terms of health and wellness. I think the analogy to sun care is, is a great one, because, you know, I think of some of the sun care brands now, from whether it's, you know, Naked Sundays to Goop and a number of others that have become very successful skincare, brands that people really do think about as part of their everyday routine. So it's a that's a very powerful and I think, helpful and opportunistic analogy, which is great when you began this, clearly with this, this vision, you began as a DTC brand was that, because of your experience in the, in the, you know, Bare Essential, Bare Minerals and and Rodan & Field’s space,

Catherine 16:53

you know, I think coming from the background that it came in, you know, what I borrowed from it is that we are creating a beloved brand that women want to talk about, use and share that really, really works. And then we want to look at the channels that women want to shop for the most. So of course, those channels are different today than they are 10 to 15 years ago. So we still look at that. We really are focused on direct to consumer and retail. Direct to consumer is important to us, ultimately, because that's how we connect to our customers. We ask every person who buys on our website questions. For example, we know that 52% of the people who buy on our website have actually never purchased a vaginal serum or personal lubricant before, so we find that to be very important, but also we find retail to be very important. And so one, but one of the things we have come to believe is that women should have access to best in class sexual health and wellness products where they shop. They shouldn't have to always now, you know, we work with a lot of gynecologists, but they shouldn’t have to just go to a gynecologist as their only option to buy a product. And so for us, how do we create those best in class products? And how do we and then, of course, how do we make it really approachable and maybe even a joyful experience, versus that sort of stereotypical, shamed experience as they walk in the aisle. So, yeah, you know, we're ambitious in the sense of and we're ambitious because we really believe. that women deserve that, and we want to, and we have a, we have a strong passion to deliver that. But, you know, we want the best in products for them. We want products that they that they are excited to use, and we also want to work with retailers to get to get our customer into the aisle. And then, if I had you made another comment that I would love to talk to you. You know, one of the benefits of being a startup versus, say, a traditional, existing company, because obviously, there's so many advantages to be in a bigger company, is that we kind of could start from that new so we when we said, hey, this is a this, you know, this is an opportunity here. Let's dig in. We interviewed, surveyed and and did focus groups with over 20,000 women. And we did 20,000 women aged 25 to 55 so if you think about it, we we didn't even know that we were just talking to women who have these new attitudes and ethos, and we didn't have any preconceived notions that we were stuck, stuck to so we built an entire brand around what women want today and what women want in the future. Okay, let's understand how women who are 25 are different than women who are having babies, sort of in the women in menopause and are really, are building our business and brand and products with that methodology? Yeah. Well,

Wendy 19:48

well, that's the strikes my heart, exactly where we always begin our work, because we always say, follow the shopper to see the future, and listening to that conversation. Conversation is so powerful, and I can see that reflected in not only the efficacy of the products, but the tone, the names of the products. We

Catherine 20:09

, first of all, we're for everyone, right? Whatever you know your income level is, or where you live in the country, or whether you have kids or not have kids, we all know that we all share these issues, and we wanted to be resonate with with women of all types. And we said, you know, if you walked out, you already have an ick feeling when you walk down the aisle. So for us, it was really important that we take away that ick feeling. So part of that was being fun and approachable, and part of that was being a little cheeky, right? So that's why we're Playground. I mean, you know, I love the reason I love Playground is because everybody interprets it differently. So it represents so much. We have a great product called “Love sash”, “Date night”, “Mini escape, and that one has an essence of coconut and sandalwood, a product “Mood maker”. So again, really, just just, we want women to really connect with us. The voice on your website

Wendy 21:14

the voice on your website is very unique. Now you built in after some time, your relationship with Christine Aguilera. How did that play into telling the story more broadly, and building her into that story?

Catherine 21:30

And I love how you presented it, because I think we have a very fortunate, unique co-founder relationship. You know, we found each other out of a shared passion for what we're doing, not through like a matchmaker of any sort. And what we said is, there's no face to Playground. And that is why, even though Christina was our co-founder, we waited six months to make that announcement, because we want, we want people to see Playground as Playground and what we stand for, and but then we all the very important voices for playground, but also for this category. Well, Christina is a, is a very powerful voice and an amazing voice, right? And she is a mother of two kids, and she's gone through all the same struggles and concerns that we have, and is also going through the same journey that we're all talking about. We're talking about perimenopause, we're talking about menopause, we're talking about postpartum health and wellness. And she's a she speaks on behalf of Playground, and she speaks on behalf of this category, and and we've been able, you know, and because she she kind of does it herself. She was on a podcast with Alex Cooper from “Call her daddy”. Very proud that she connected with Drew Barrymore. And it was the championing of not just Christina, but Drew herself to tell her producers that we want to talk about this subject on mass television. It was the first time everyone's brought any, anyone brought vaginal serums and lubricants to this female audience, right? So, so she's been an amazing partner, but really, because of the shared, shared mission and vision, having these conversations.

Wendy 23:20

Yeah, that's exciting. So you began as direct to consumer, and then begun to add retail partners to your point of anywhere women happen to be shopping and wanting to access that. How did you choose, what you chose, who you chose, and tell us a bit about those relationships. Nordstrom, Anthropologie, Target,

Catherine 23:46

That's a great question. And my background, I've or in my past, I've worked with Ulta and Sephora and Nordstroms, and so we were familiar with retail, at least from that category. This category was a little bit different, because we I think what's so exciting is, is that every retailer is looking to embrace health and wellness and women's sexual health and wellness and learn and and what's also very interesting is, is the definitions are different across retailers. Do we call it intimate health? Do we call it sexual wellness? I think all of those will eventually kind of converge at some point. And so part of our journey was a natural interest from retailers who approached us, who who, especially female merchants, who recognized that, oh, wait, you know, 55 to 60% of my shoppers are women, and really, all we have to offer, you know, is like a Trojan, which, you know, not targeting women and her health benefits. So we were approached by a lot of retailers, and then as we started to select in for the first ones, it was, it was really those who said they want Playground to be there. You know. Clean and better for you, vaginal serum and lubricant, you know, and for us, it's like we, we know. We the reclinical studies that show that we improve and promote better vaginal health, and so partners who really want to help with that message. And what's great is that we're seeing that interest grow. We, as of last week, just launched with Thrive Market, another great partner that does an amazing job of looking at ingredients and sustainability. It I think because we're still a little early on, it's really important that you connect with a retailer who has those same points of view.

Wendy 25:47

Yeah, and it is I was thinking when, when, you know, we met a few months ago for the first time, and I looked at the retail partners you were beginning to build relationships with that. It felt each of them certainly, you know, Target, Anthropologie, Nordstrom, each felt like they addressed a different potentially, a different person, a different life stage or a different price point in the marketplace. But so I was wondering what a commonality was, and you've made that really clear about why would we want to be, you know, in a big box mass retailer like Target, in a department store, in a specialty store that tends younger. So the story comes, comes to play there quite clearly. And I think we've, we've

Catherine 26:31

And I think we've, we've learned, and we continue to always want to know who our customer is, and she is the wellness minded woman, 25 to 55 who cares about what she puts in and on her body? What we're doing now is like we have certain products that speak to younger women, and then, particularly, launching this year, we'll have new line, lines of products to speak to a woman in a different stage. So, you know, we can target that person, and then she can pick the products based on her particular needs. And then, you know, we've also learned, for example, and we'll be able to share this with new retailers, that even within our key partner, Target, 67% of buyers of our product at Target have never purchased in this aisle before, right? And that 82% of our shoppers in Target are women. So like we can now say we are the brand that is for the modern day, sexually active woman and where, and we're speaking to her so directly, right? That that's who we are attracting and who we are resonating with.

Wendy 27:44

Yeah, yeah. And it feels so obvious. I say that again because, you know, we have sexually active women everywhere who think they either have an issue or a problem and don't realize it's a very common thing. They don't have the support. They're willing to look for it. They're willing to do their homework. We see in all our How America Shops® research, the tremendous amount of homework, women and men on their own side, in terms of their own sexual health and wellness and more so now, but women in particular, all the places they go to look for information, all the places they're trying to resource to help them live a healthier, more uplifting, I would Say, life who aren't afraid of the the stigma. Because there is no stigma if we understand that this is an open discussion about how we remain physically and mentally emotionally healthy. So it feels like, Yeah, okay. But, you know, generationally, I look back at and think, Oh, why has this taken so long, so

Catherine 29:01

and I, and I think, like, we, you know, going back, since there's so many sort of retailers and business folks here, you know, retailers and businesses, we all, we look for two things, right? We look for that consumer demand and interest, but then we also look at what's, a, you know, what's the, what's the market size, so, but when you have, when you have an emerging category, especially one that's really lacked innovation, then what? Then you have the first piece of that puzzle that you get excited about, but you have yet to see that second piece of that and and I think, like as women, now that more products are coming into the market, that's just going to create that bigger tam and hopefully get more people excited and more people on on board. Yeah, so, so just, I think that that's some some resistance that I've felt in because we are so close to that consumer, we know that the the demand opportunity is huge, and why you know. We're really focused on the innovation and creating products that speak to women about their specific needs. We think that that's going to be a big piece of the growth puzzle. Yeah, this category too. Yeah.

Wendy 30:14

I mean, I see the challenges as they've evolved over the last few years, the first ones to the market, and the challenges that they had when they were either a broader range of products, like brands like Womeness wonderfully successful in terms of innovation and storytelling, retailers didn't know where to put it because they had a wide range of products. Now, do I break it up and put it in this aisle, on this aisle, on this aisle, do I put it all together? How do I think about that? So great deal of learning, and, you know, credit to the to the Womeness team.

Catherine 30:51

And I also would say that it's really hard for retailers to be pioneering. Hey, they're certainly not rewarded many times for that. But I'm encouraged that this, this, this need, is so great that it is an opportunity for someone to be pioneering, right? Like somebody walked up to Estée Lauder and she had her first products that she were showing people. I mean, we're investors saying, Well, how big is this tam?, right? Like, how, I don't think beauty is a very, very big market. And I think that kind of where we are women's health. So whoever can can really vision that and champion that is going to be an outsized winner, but probably the least amount of investment. Yeah, yeah.

Wendy 31:39

No, no, I absolutely get it's interesting in the next week or so, we are part of a with, with one of our clients, at one of the retailers, to bring this sort of half day session of education and information to them in this space. And we're actually bringing consumers, shoppers into the room to talk about this much as you did with your 20,000 which is astonishing and amazing and wonderful, just to hear them, so the retailer can sort of lean in and say, Oh, I never thought about that. And I will tell you when I first hads Somi Javaid Dr Javaid part of a discussion with me again at another retailer. I looked at the room in front of me, and I thought there were about 40 people, and I thought maybe I read the room incorrectly when I asked her to come, because 80% of them were men. And I thought, maybe not, right. And of course, not only did the women respond to the discussion about menopause, but all the men in the room either had a spouse, a partner, a friend, a sister, a daughter, or whatever, who was part of the peri or menopause conversation. And so, you know, bringing this voice to the retailers, to your point, helps them be a little bolder in terms of the size of the opportunity. So what do you see as the next challenges for growth, for the category? For you, where are the opportunities you've identified, some of them here. What's, what's the, what's the vision for Playground ? And what do you see as the vision for the category, the category being defined over the next three to five years.

Catherine 33:23

You know, I kind of mentioned one of them, which is, how do you transition from a outdated category definitions into these new definitions? Right? So what, you know, we kind of made this shift even with Playground, when we said, well, we don't make lubricants. We make products that solve vaginal dryness and and help to restore prevent vaginal atrophy. That's actually what we do. Someone else has put us in that lubricant category. So I think that. I don't know if that's a challenge, but I think that's what the big discussion is going to be. I think the biggest challenge within this category is, is investment, and it's an incredible investment, right? So less than 3% of all healthcare investment goes into women's focused healthcare. So can you imagine the sliver that goes into women's sexual health care, it's, it's like under 7% of female founded startups get get investment, so that 93% of all VC startup is going to males. So you know it is that there's this lack of early stage interest, because there's not a mandate or an alignment from these individuals. And what it really does, I think, for the Womanesses of the world and of the new players of the world, is we just have to fight hard. Harder and be louder and kind of recognize that we're making the, you know, we're, we're early adopter, start entrepreneurs, and we just have a much heavier lift. But, but, but, you know, that's what I continue to think, that right, like we have, we have the demand on we're now starting to get access to understanding, you know, what kind of science we need to create better products, whether they're prescription based or over the counter, like for Playground, we really want to be an over the counter solution again, because we believe. And I go, let's go back to skincare. I believe you can go get Botox. I believe you can go get laser, but it doesn't mean as a woman, you're not going to use moisturizer and sunscreen, right? And I, and I think that, you know, the other thing too, is education is, we're so early on the education, right? Like, you know, I strongly believe in five years from now, all women are going to be like, Oh, I'm in menopause. I just had a baby. What is my sexual health regimen and routine right now? And what am I going to get from my doctor? And then what am I going to get over the counter? Because that's what we do in our other areas of health. And well, right? So it so it makes sense that it's not just one product that solves at all it is, you know, a system of products that you can use and that are kind of tailored and customized to your needs.

Wendy 36:29

no, no, I think that's all of that fits within the regimen, our lifestyle, taking care of our lives, you know, being independent in that, thinking about it as a way for our own personal health and wellness, and the health and wellness ultimately, then of our families, our friends, our whatever, because if we are happy souls, then the world is and you

Catherine 36:50

and you kind of just, you know, you also said, What is the future of women's sexual health and wellness? It's very similar to the future of health and wellness, which is longevity and anti aging, right? You talk to a woman who's 55 who's taking great care of her skin, use sunscreen, access products that are over the counter into the doctor, her skin looks very different than if she didn't, and we believe that we can do the same with vaginal dryness and vaginal atrophy. We believe that we can give women products so that they actually don't have to experience those particular symptoms in menopause. We really are excited about products that prevent and reverse women's sexual health challenges. Yeah, yeah.

Wendy 37:39

So that, by itself, is an extraordinary opportunity. I know you've got a lot of work at hand, and hopefully the continued rising up of voice in the broader community will have an impact on that there. It is certainly heightened much more to be done right in that space, but but certainly the work that you and Sandy are doing, and Christina, and then the voice of the this growth category, I think, is incredibly powerful and actually one of the most exciting areas, I think as retailers and brands and new companies move into this into this space. So thank you for this. This is a very powerful message, and exciting to hear the opportunity. It's been a pleasure to see you again. Thank you for joining me on Future Shop and lots of good luck in the future. Cheers for now.

So here's the thing. I mean, you know, we all spend our time looking for new opportunities in the marketplace. Today, we all spend our time talking about health and wellness. This is a big opportunity. Women's Health and Wellness, sexual health and wellness, total health and wellness. So you know what Catherine shared with us is really a journey, and there's lots of opportunity on that journey. But as always, you have to listen. Have to pay attention. So as you begin to think about what that shelf looks like, what that wall looks like, where products fit again, follow the shop to see the future, and what you will see very clearly is there are a lot of women in this country and around the world who are looking for ways to take care of their health and wellness, sexual and every other kind. That's a big opportunity see in the future. Cheers for now.